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24 January 2011 @ 06:32 pm
response to the webclip  

(My axiom: Supernatural, Seasons 1-5, were the epic story of Dean learning to let Sam go.)

Dean’s finally learned to let Sam go. After five years of fighting heaven and hell and finally learning that “he and Sam against the world” really is against the world, after mourning and shattering, he’s finally living for someone who isn’t Sam.

Then Sam’s back.

And all at once it’s worse than it ever was. This co-dependence, something you’d thought Dean was free of, returns. Not only returns, but taking an even more dangerous, kiss-me-kill-me, love-hate shape.

Sam is destructive to Dean for a much deeper reason than having no soul. Free of a soul and of his own dependence, even Sam can see that. He doesn’t want it back. He knows it’s not the right thing.

Dean doesn’t. Dean only sees what Dean wants. And so Dean hurts his brother in an effort to hold on to him. Dean disobeys his brother’s wishes for what you can only assume is selfishness.

You know that while Dean is caught up in this, he’ll never have a normal life. He’ll never be happy, not the meaning of the word you’ve learned to understand.

Dean taught you the meaning of that word.

You’re an angel. You love him.

Of course you’re angry.

Kevin Jonesmulder200 on January 24th, 2011 11:57 pm (UTC)
Oh! I just reading all these different responses to that webclip!

And what a a great look into Castiel's headspace.

Sam is destructive to Dean for a much deeper reason than having no soul. Free of a soul and of his own dependence, even Sam can see that. He doesn’t want it back. He knows it’s not the right thing.

Dean doesn’t. Dean only sees what Dean wants. And so Dean hurts his brother in an effort to hold on to him. Dean disobeys his brother’s wishes for what you can only assume is selfishness.

Sad but true.
Lady Eternal: Family Firstladyeternal on January 25th, 2011 12:04 am (UTC)
You know from my response to your meta about 6x11 that the last scene was, in my interpretation, as close to rape as you can get short of the act itself. I'm not happy at all with this. Show is epic, but it's dancing on the edge of nerves I haven't had pushed in a long time... and Joss was about a ZILLION times better at it than S6 has been so far.

Aside from the total violation that was that last scene in 6x11, two things really bother me about this whole season:

1) This was sold to us as a season about the relationship between the brothers. About getting back to what they had in the beginning. About the dynamic that had us all falling in love with the series and these characters. THIS HASN'T BEEN IT BY A LONG-GORRAM-SHOT. I would expound on that, but I'd be pointing out 90% of the season thus far.

2) The scene only serves to perpetuate the idea that Sam was tortured in the Cage. I don't believe that for a moment. I genuinely don't and I don't give a crap what canon says, I never will. Michael wouldn't do that; not f*cked up Show Michael and not real Michael. And neither Show nor real Lucifer would have any reason to, because Sam's actions in Stull Cemetery stopped the showdown between he and Michael from happening. He's never wanted it and he said as much before Michael acted like a douche and called him a monster. Lucifer wasn't just drawing swords and having done with it. He wanted Michael to "walk off the chessboard" with him; his words. There is NO REASON for him to torture Sam when Sam's actions got him out of a fight he's never wanted to happen. The ENTIRE idea that they are torturing Adam and Sam is BS and for the life of me I can't understand what the writers are intending with the plot device other than just pounding the boys into the ground a little harder.

I have this whole big personal issue with excessive character whumpage. Show's been dancing on the razor-fine edge of it.

This whole season just feels off balance. And Cas being angry over Dean only seeing what he wants? About being selfish to the point of obsessive in wanting his brother back and ensouled? Of course he is. This is beyond Dean's refusal to participate in the Apocalypse; at least in that, Dean's "selfish" desire not to allow Michael to use him as a vessel because he didn't want to "kill" his brother had a broader motive as well: in refusing to comply, in trying to find a way to stop it without the archangelic death match, he was saving the lives and way of life of billions. This relentless push to get Sam's soul rammed back into his body, even above Sam's desperate cries for him to stop it from happening, to protect him from it... there was nothing Righteous about it. It wasn't about helping Sam.

There are times this Show isn't about the brothers at all. It's the Dean Show, and when it's the Dean Show, anything Sam wants or thinks or feels or cares about can walk right off a cliff with an anvil as far as Dean's concerned. And Cas finally called him on his shit.

I highly doubt Dean will ever actually hear it, though. Show occasionally gives him even less sensitivity than a dead rock, and I'm getting the feeling this is gonna be one of those times. I hated that about most of S3, and we're getting it all over again.

I need to write more fic now.
Tiptoe39: disaster movietiptoe39 on January 25th, 2011 12:11 am (UTC)
a) I'm glad i gave you a chance to vent.

b) You're brilliant.

c) I'm very glad that this stuff doesn't bother me as much as it bothers you or I'd be positively fuming.

d) ILU.

I daren't touch more than that.
Lady Eternal: Family Firstladyeternal on January 25th, 2011 12:30 am (UTC)
o.o I did kinda go off a little, didn't I? ::hugs you:: Sorry.

Don't mistake me, I wanted Sam to get his soul back. And I think Dean's been put through 150 kinds of shit and he has every right to want Sam's soul back where it belongs, especially if we accept the absurd notion that Michael and Lucifer were torturing him. And if after all of this nonsense Dean doesn't find a way to get Adam out, too, there will be one excessively pissed-off fangirl over here. I also think Dean and Sam deserve to have a chance to live something resembling a "normal" life. After everything they've been through, they deserve to be happy.

I will resist the urge to go off on a tangent about the heteronormative definition of 'happily ever after' Show's been trying to foist on us to counterbalance the fact that everyone knows Dean and Cas are/should be sweating up the sheets every chance they get. Honest I will. ::angelic smile::

To take an opposite perspective to my previous rant, if you add up everything about what these two have been through together, you have one inescapable truth: Dean is Sam's parent as much as his brother. Are there any lengths to which a real parent will not go to make sure their child is safe? That their child isn't being hurt and is happy, whole and safe? Of course Dean had to get him out. Of course Dean wasn't going to let anything, even Robo-Sam's protests, stand in his way. A piece of Sam was in everlasting pain that went beyond what Dean suffered himself in Hell. What parent could bear to live knowing that?

::blushes:: I'm just defensive of my boys and my angels, is all. There have been a lot of moments when I've looked at Show and seriously wondered if the writers are even attempting to base the angels on their real counterparts or if they're taking the Stephanie Meyer approach to character creation and not bothering to do more than the most superficial research into the subject. Which, considering the allusions they've made in the past and how actually really well they nailed both Gabriel as an archangel and Gabriel as Loki, would be even more f*cked up than I've imagined thus far.

I've been fuming since 6x11 aired. My beloved is a rape survivor. She's been trying to watch the reruns when she can catch them so she understands what I'm talking about with Show. I had to tell her, point blank, that if she really wanted to watch 6x11 she needed to stop right after Dean & Death have a snack together, but she'd be better off avoiding it altogether. That last scene would've triggered her like nobody's business and I haven't the ability to get to her right now to put her back together if she has a PTSD episode.


Touch whatever you want, sweetie. I promise to behave. ^_^
Tiptoe39tiptoe39 on January 25th, 2011 12:35 am (UTC)
You don't have to apologize to me! You can always say stuff like this - it's what I find interesting about fandom is the ability to have these really strong feelings about it. And I love all three of our TFW boys too - and wish they could be put right. It's just, your feelings are stronger than mine, so I don't wanna say anything that'd get anyone honestly upset when for me, the most this evokes is sort of a mild irritation.

In order to survive in fandom, I've sort of managed to feel all the positive things about fandom and eschew the negative things. So I don't get upset as much as I get happy. I know that's not the same for a lot of people, is all. So I avoid poking soft places :)