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14 August 2012 @ 12:13 pm
This meta is not a hero.  

1) Quite apart from anything else that happens in this show, the Stilinski family is flawless. I have no idea how they were supposed to fit into this finale, quite frankly, but I'm incredibly glad they were there because whenever either or both of them is on the screen, I am enthralled and close to tears. Just WOW.

2) So the parents are quite interesting, aren't they? Boy, it's Harry Potter all over again. Screw the kids, I want to ship the parents unrelentingly. Dying to see if Mama McCall (who is SUCH a badass, seriously) gets with Sheriff Stilinski, and/or if Chris Argent finds some reason to be interested in her. (or if HE gets with Sheriff Stiles, which would be OK, too! Mama Mc, Sherrif S, and Hotass Hunter OT3!)

3) So Stiles showing up at home surprised me, but I didn't quite follow the thread of all of that. The Stiles we know would immediately have phoned Scott and explained everything that was going on, so why didn't he? Because he didn't want Scott to act on his behalf? It's not as though Stiles was in mortal danger and Scott would have gone off all half-cocked. And wasn't Stiles worried about what went down at/after the game? He just seemed so damn defeated, and I couldn't tell why. What did I miss? I thought for sure there was something he knew, something Gerard had told him, that he was keeping quiet. But it never panned out. Any help on this one?

4) Biggest unfulfilled promise of the episode: Jackson With Wings. Please to be writing all the fic where even though Jackson is all wolfy now, he still has wings. Then all of the wing!kink can happen.

5) Biggest disappointment of the episode: Derek. No character development from him. Just the same old "I have to kill it" mentality. He has learned nothing, and Peter has learned too much. I don't see how either of their character arcs have gotten them where they are now. Why is Peter being so helpful? He must want something that we haven't seen yet. Right? And how, after losing his pack and being told by so many that he needs to learn to care, was Derek right back in the kill-it-with-fire mentality? I expected some moment of transition from him this episode. Maybe he's just a slow learner. But I really hope we see his character start to turn.

6) As inexplicable as Peter's turnaround is, it's incredibly entertaining. He's quite the character, and him being snarky/wily is a lot more fun than him being all-out evil. I'm not lusting after him the way some of my friends are, but I'm willing to see where this leads.

7) How much was the opening-theme moment an anime throwback? All I could see was Princess Serenity beating back Queen Metallia while Moonlight Densetsu played in the background.

8) And then that awkward moment when Gerard becomes a Leviathan.

9) I think Peter & Derek knew that the evisceration would turn Jackson rather than kill him. At least, that's what I choose to believe. It was too coordinated to be otherwise. The whole Lydia/Jackson thing was predictable, but entertaining. And anything that results in more naked Jackson is okay with me. I was so pleased he survived, and DAMN those blue eyes are BEAUTIFUL. *dances in Jackson love* May we please now have Jackson/everyone pack!bonding sex please? *enamored of Jackson/Derek thoughts*

10) And from that moment on, the episode got a bit weird. Allison was threatened a bit and went soft again? Or was it seeing Jackson and Lydia that put her back in her twuu luvv mode? I'd like to think that her grandfather's betrayal made her think about what evil is beyond shape, but that wasn't portrayed very well. Anyway, I thought maybe Scott would reject her after what she'd done. If she'd succeeded in killing anyone I think he would have, but the line should have been well short of that. At least they didn't end up all happy and goopy again.

11) So let's talk about the concept of an Alpha pack. I immediately flashed to Heroes Volume III "Villains," and also the post-Season-5 flail of Supernatural. It's good to work your way up to bigger and badder enemies, but when you start forming a Megazord of bad guys, things get very, very easy to do wrong. This supervillain group better have a good reason for existing and a better reason for coming after Derek. I would like to see them try to recruit him, rather than destroy him, and possibly work on the loyalties of his pack. (Please don't let Erica and Boyd be dead!) And I would also love to see the Alpha pack be a human construct - Alphas discovering they can work on their higher brain functions as well as their wolf instincts, and put the impetus to kill each other aside. (And then that impetus can work its way slowly into the dynamic, and Derek or Scott can be the one to see it coming and try to keep chaos from breaking out). But there's just so much that can go wrong here, and it will be awful for the show if it does go wrong. So I'm crossing my fingers that it's done thoughtfully and done right.

12) Needs moar Sterek.

13) The "back to basics" worries me, too. That didn't work for SPN and it's not gonna work here. I would like to see a renewed emphasis on Scott's school life, and him thinking about his future, but without disregarding what he's been through in the past. Also, I'm concerned about Lydia/Jackson from here on out. I still don't think Jackson loves her as much as she loves him, and I don't want him to. He's so wonderful when he's douchetastic.

14) I'm not gonna get into Deaton and Unnamed Guidance Counselor. They could be badass, but I hate that they're so separated from everything else. They need to be in the mix, or it just feels like the Magical Negro** trope times two. (**I am aware of my lack of qualification to call this out, but that's my feeling on it.) Let's see their relationships with others besides each other.

OK, that's all I've got. That and, was that Cally from BSG at the beginning of the episode? The EMT looked familiar to me. :)

Have at it!
pollyannarosepollyannarose on August 14th, 2012 05:36 pm (UTC)
i think that all these things, and there are a few little niggles of little things, that have happened, where a storyline is brushed over or under the carpet (lydia and her spiked punch! how did no one punch her for that the next day???), will be straightened our when we get the extra episodes next season. Along with Hale family back history, and perhaps more about the interaction of the Argents with the Hales over the years.

I am hoping that Papa Argent and Scott become a kind of duo, like Alaric/Damon on TVD and i am massively relieved that Stiles didnt get bitten, i really really hope that never happens. I wonder if the crime fighting Vet and his daughter are some kind of guardians for the wuffs, he did hint that he has always looked after the Hales, and the daughter said she knew that something big was coming, and they are the ones that knew about the Mountain ash (which Peter said himself was an old trick. I would like them being aligned with the Beacon wuffs against the alpha wuffs.

and yes, like you i was disappointed that we didnt see jacksons wings, but i suppose MTV has a limited budget :(
perhaps next time?

but i loved it overall, and i am glad it didnt break my heart too much, Stiles and papa stiles had me crying, but papa stiles is always good for an emotional moment! ♥ xx
Tiptoe39tiptoe39 on August 14th, 2012 05:44 pm (UTC)
Here's hoping your "pollyanna" hope comes to fruition, m'dear.

Has she said she's his daughter? I didn't get that vibe from them. I thought they were a couple, or an ex-couple, or something. The guardian bit is pretty Magical Negro, though; I'd rather see them get down and dirty and get in mortal peril themselves.
The Soul says: - pollyannarose on August 14th, 2012 06:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
The Soul says: - tiptoe39 on August 14th, 2012 06:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
aliassmithaliassmith on August 14th, 2012 06:00 pm (UTC)
He has learned nothing, and Peter has learned too much.

My thoughts exactly. I know this season was supposed to be about Derek learning humility, etc etc, but he...hasn't really learned anything? At all?

Sill, the overall happiness of this finale left me in such a good place after the endless, gut-wrenching torture of Supernatural's season final episodes. Jeff Davis, you are most definitely a gift.
Tiptoe39tiptoe39 on August 14th, 2012 06:06 pm (UTC)
It was very nice that nobody died, yes. And maybe Derek needs s'more time. I'd like to think that watching Lydia and Jackson touched him a bit.

I have a little less understanding of why Peter is being the way he's being. But here's hoping there's a plan
pollyannarosepollyannarose on August 14th, 2012 06:33 pm (UTC)
blue eyes...
do you think, and i could be massively wide of the mark here its just a thought, that Jackson could be part of the Hale family somewhere along the lines? He said in series that he had a vague memory of that house and it being on fire (or was that perhaps just having that connection to derek because he finger stabbed his neck?)
and he is an orphan and they have mentioned that A LOT!

and then the blue eyes. the only other wolf with blue eyes is derek, the rest are gold or red...
I wont be hurt if you tell me i am talking pants, its just a little thought that popped into my head :D
Tiptoe39tiptoe39 on August 14th, 2012 06:34 pm (UTC)
Re: blue eyes...
Oh, my god. You know something, Jeff Davis said there was a whole story about Jackson's birth parents that they didn't get to tell....

I think this is very possible.
Re: blue eyes... - lovedlea on August 14th, 2012 06:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: blue eyes... - tiptoe39 on August 14th, 2012 06:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: blue eyes... - lovedlea on August 14th, 2012 07:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: blue eyes... - pollyannarose on August 14th, 2012 07:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: blue eyes... - tiptoe39 on August 14th, 2012 07:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Ms Dref: The Office - baby staredref22 on August 14th, 2012 07:18 pm (UTC)
Ahhh awesome meta post. The Jackson/Lydia bed scene? Total retconning because they weren't really like that when they had a relationship, well, especially Jackson.

LOL the finale! They didn't even kill Grandpa Argent, I guess they want to have different options when they go into season 3 which, btw, will have 22 episodes! *could not stop seeing Grandpa as Saul Tigh*

Why did Jackson have those blueee eyes? Didn't he suppose to have yellow eyes or something?

I don't know where they are going with the vet etc.

I am loving this show even just for the parents. *shakes her fist at The Vampire Dairies* Stilinski huggage scene. SO MANY EMOTIONS ARGH. I am shipping the parents too and I miss Mama Argent so hard. UGH.

I can't wait for the new season!

Edited at 2012-08-14 07:18 pm (UTC)
Tiptoe39tiptoe39 on August 14th, 2012 07:29 pm (UTC)
See upthread for some speculation on the blueeeeee eyes. I just think they're beautimous. :) Yeah the parents are awesome and so is Saul Tigh :D

I agree about the bed scene but I like naked Jackson so I will forgive them a lot :D
The Soul says: - dref22 on August 14th, 2012 10:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Kassie got a BA in inventing subtext.: pretty Kate (purple).amor_remanet on August 14th, 2012 11:50 pm (UTC)
Dying to see if Mama McCall (who is SUCH a badass, seriously) gets with Sheriff Stilinski, and/or if Chris Argent finds some reason to be interested in her. (or if HE gets with Sheriff Stiles, which would be OK, too! Mama Mc, Sherrif S, and Hotass Hunter OT3!) — oh LAWD, same same same.

As far as Stiles goes… I think I missed something there too, just like how I'm kind of confused as to why Mama and Papa Argent were so adamantly set in, "KATE COULDN'T HAVE BURNED DOWN THE HALE HOUSE" at the end of the first season finale. I'm wondering if he didn't do or agree to something that would make Gerard let him out and that we'll find out later? especially in light of Stiles saying, "I'm not a hero" over and over again?

And as for the Stilinskis as a duo… I thought that, yeah, they might not have fit there emotionally, but thematically? In terms of the season as a whole? They really did need to be there. Family (as in pack and as in literal family, or families of choice) has been a huge theme with this season, and… granted, I don't really know what they were trying to do with it, but I don't think the episode would've really felt "complete" without touching on the Stilinskis' arc somehow. Plus, it was kind of a nice cushion for ALL OF THE WHUMP.

(not to say family wasn't also a theme of season one, because it totally was, but it came out a lot more in and was much more central to season two? at least, it was for me.)

I… have a lot of mixed feelings about Peter. On the one hand, I'm really still mad at him for killing Kate, so there's an admitted bias there. On the other, he spent most of the season being really dang skeevy, so I totally think he's up to something — especially with all of those random reaction shots of him looking like, "mmm, yes good" while everything else in the warehouse was going down? Some of them were before he and Derek turned Jackson, so… they're probably about the eventual turning Jackson thing, but I recall a few that weren't from then, and I have questions about them.

On the tentacle, though… to start, I really like Peter and Kate as foils for each other, and maybe looking at them in that light is sort of why I look at his turnaround and see it as more understandable? For one thing, he's still pretty obviously Up To Something and I don't trust him on that count, so I don't know how much of his turnaround I think is in earnest. For another, though, he and Kate have been mostly defined in terms of doing extreme, morally screwed up things in the name of family — Kate because (apparently) Gerard twisted her around into thinking werewolf genocide was really what the Clan Argent stands for, and Peter to get revenge for his family (even though he thought he had to kill his niece and take her alpha status in order to do so).

And yeah, the question of WHY Peter's a lot more chilled out still lingers (especially since… I don't know how long the, "he's weaker after being reborn" clause is supposed to last? it looked pretty over with to me when he and Derek gored Jackson) — but his actions, at the moment, still look primarily family-motivated to me? Help Derek build up the pack by turning Jackson. Make Derek tell Isaac about the incoming Alpha Pack because everyone needs to be on their toes. Keep Derek from getting himself killed by kanima!Jackson and/or one of the Argents. It could be a case of, "death gives you a new perspective on things," or he could just be yanking everyone around while he formulates a Scheme, or any number of other things, but… yeah. I thought there was at least some kind of logic there, for all it wasn't really explained ever.

This supervillain group better have a good reason for existing and a better reason for coming after Derek. I would like to see them try to recruit him, rather than destroy him, and possibly work on the loyalties of his pack. (Please don't let Erica and Boyd be dead!) — yes to this, and basically yes to all of that paragraph.

Please to be writing all the fic where even though Jackson is all wolfy now, he still has wings — that actually might fit in really well with something I've been prodding at today, and the Danny/Jackson I started laying out yesterday. Or both. Both is good?
Tiptoe39tiptoe39 on August 15th, 2012 09:54 am (UTC)
they might not have fit there emotionally, but thematically? In terms of the season as a whole? They really did need to be there.

Thematically they are the whole reason that the rest of it works. The point is that the wolves struggle with being human as much as the humans struggle with dealing with the wolves. So yeah. Ngh. But I also have a thing for audience surrogates. ^_^

Lady Eternal: Apply Fanfic?ladyeternal on August 15th, 2012 04:47 am (UTC)
Comment is long & therefore multi-part
1) I personally love the bond between Stiles & his dad. For all the strain that Stiles’ new secrets can put between them on top of the normal strain that comes w/being a single parent of a hyperactive teenage boy while being employed as law enforcement, Stiles and his father obviously have a tight, loving bond that shows itself in all kinds of subtle & wonderful ways, & I applaud TW for it.

2) See, when you say Hotass Hunter OT3, I start going right back to my Dean/Sam/Chris Argent threesome idea. Because no one can resist a combination of cheekbones, daddy issues and firearms proficiency, and those three have all of said criteria in SPADES.

3) IMHO, Stiles was feeling defeated for the same reason that Xander did sometimes: he’s a very ordinary human & yet part of an inner circle populated by suprahuman people. Derek, Erica, Boyd, Isaac & Scott are all weres. Jackson was a kanima & is now were. Allison & her family are were-hunters & apparently genetically predisposed to all manner of epic skills. Even Lydia has her amazeballs intelligence, beauty & popularity on top of her immunity to an alpha’s bite.

Then, on a night when Stiles had finally achieved something that should’ve given him center stage @ least for a few minutes, and he’s kidnapped & beaten up by a senior citizen w/cancer. That’s not good for his self-esteem just to start. Factor in that it was done b/c Gerard wanted to prove to Scott that he could get to anyone in Scott’s life @ any time if he didn’t toe the line, & Stiles was all “I’m having none of this. I’m neither bait nor pawn, & I won’t let myself be used to hurt people I love.”

Plus, that whole speech to Lydia about how someone dying isn’t just about them, it’s about the people all around them that have to deal with the loss? That was a great big chunk of unresolved issues w/his mother’s death & how it affected him & his father. Which makes me wonder if his mom OD’d on something or had an undisclosed medical condition that she didn’t get treated until it was too late. IDK if canon has said exactly how she died, but that’s what it sounded like to me. So Gerard trying to use being able to hurt or kill him to get to Scott just opened up those wounds all over again & he benched himself for a while.

4) Biggest laugh of the episode: “Look: somebody actually made an animation of it. Maybe it’s less frightening if we-” **SHRIEK** {both big badass weres jump like little girls telling scary stories @ a sleepover. Peter slams the laptop closed like it’ll come through the screen if he doesn’t.} “Nope; not at all.”
Tiptoe39tiptoe39 on August 15th, 2012 10:12 am (UTC)
Re: Comment is long & therefore multi-part
I can't tell you the depths of my squee when I saw you had commented in multipartitude.

1) Yeah, as I said above, there's something there that the big bad wolves can only dream of having -- that human a bond is the anchor that drives the whole show, and it's gorgeous.

2) See my problem is I can't bring myself to be attracted to Papa Argent. Sheriff Stiles, maybe, but Argent has too much chin hair. IDEK. I'm flawed.

3) If it's that simple, I applaud the show. But I don't see Stiles as turning his back on Scott that easily, and I don't see the writers as going that purely psychological. Not doing anything with Stiles after kidnapping him was THE major cliffhanger of the previous episode strikes me as not typical of the writing. More like "we need stiles kidnappped b/c it will rile up the fan base, and we need him home because he needs to give lydia a pep talk, so... um... yeah! let's just have him so defeated he doesn't call scott".... feels like plot driving character rather than the other way around. I can come up with rationalizations for having my characters do what the plot needs them to do but it will never feel as genuine as it ought to and that's what I felt here.

4) AHAHHAHAAH yes. now i need Hale Family Slumber Party crackfic.
Re: Comment is long & therefore multi-part - ladyeternal on August 15th, 2012 03:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Lady Eternal: Unconvincing Plot Deviceladyeternal on August 15th, 2012 04:48 am (UTC)
Part Two of long, multi-part comment
5) Biggest disappointment of the episode: I agree entirely that Derek’s total lack of development is starting to show & it’s less than impressive, especially coming from the same writers that deliver us such epicness in the Stiles/Sheriff S. scenes. Besides, Deaton specifically warned him against trusting Peter when it comes to this mess, & what does Derek do? Exactly the opposite. That’s either sloppy writing or else they’re building the biggest “I told you so” moment in history.

Even bigger disappointment of the ep for me, tho, was the fact that no one called Allison on her shit. Not even her father, who tried but wound up soft-pedaling it b/c he’s grieving Victoria too & then was all passive-aggressive about it by cutting the string of her crossbow. She went from milquetoast waif to psycho-killer-qu'est-ce que c'est to repentant grieving waif in the space of… what? 3 eps? Which adds up to about a week or so in canon time? I’m sorry, but the kind of bloodlust she was displaying doesn’t get explained away by an overcompensation for her grief over her mother’s death & it doesn’t go away with a snap of the fingers like that either.

Plus, where was the discussion about the fact that Victoria tried to kill Scott & that’s how she wound up being bitten? I feel that’s a relevant issue that got completely bloody well ignored.

6) I came in medias res, so I didn’t get the chance to see S1 Peter. But I can tell you that S2 Peter reminds me of a slightly more amoral & infinitely more lethal version of the original McSteamy from Grey’s Anatomy, which means I want to see more of him like yesterday. Ian Bohen & Eric Dane even look a little bit alike.

(This is why people are lusting after him. We all want to see TW recreate that infamous GA scene by having Peter step out of a steaming bathroom while in the process of wrapping a towel around his waist. After very clearly having had ridiculously hot sex with someone.)

7) I have one word for you, BB: Voltron. *does a little dance of geeky happiness*

8) I waffle when it comes to Gerard. On the one hand: dude is crazier than a sack of rats in a burning meth lab & very clearly should not be fucked with. On the other: some of his lines were written by an immature cheese wheel in Wisconsin & I just don’t know what to do w/that.
Tiptoe39tiptoe39 on August 15th, 2012 02:15 pm (UTC)
Re: Part Two of long, multi-part comment
Sorry, was distracted from epic reply by the kind of work they pay me for... bleh.

5) I'm careful about blaming Allison, partly because there's so many accusations of sexism in fandom and we all want bb Jackson to be forgiven though he actually HAS killed people, so I feel like I haven't got a leg to stand on where Allison is concerned. But partly, too, because I liked badass, dark!Allison, and I thought it should have been harder to break her.

I think we can assume Scott told Allison the circumstances of the bite sometime before their El Goopo Supremo final scene.

6) All I know of Grey's Anatomy is that Dr. Piccolo is the sexy but neurotic doctor and that Dean refused Dr. Sexy's direct order. So no comment:)

7) \o/

8) I have nothing to say in response to this but that I want to kiss your brain for those turns of phrase. OMG hon. <3
Lady Eternal: Mozzie calls bullshitladyeternal on August 15th, 2012 04:49 am (UTC)
Part Three of long, multi-part comment
9) I think Peter knew. I think Derek was in “kill it w/fire” mode b/c he’s clearly incapable of higher reasoning functions. Everyone outthought, out-plotted or out-planned Derek this season. BB’s glorious, but he needs to grow some brains fast.

Nekkid!Jackson scene was seriously reminiscent of the Terminator rising naked from the time-travel bubble, & it was awesome. A little deus ex machina, but whatever. ~_^ I wonder what the blue eyes signifies, tho, since red means Alpha and yellow apparently can mean both Beta and Omega.

Lydia/Jackson is sweet, but I love watching her w/Stiles. They’re like Xander/Cordelia back in the day, & I’d like to see Jackson get to have a significant connection w/more than one person. Douchiness is fantastic, but I feel like Jackson is a woobie underneath it & I want to make it better.

10) I have major issues w/the whole Scott/Allison ship, mostly stemming from the fact that I’m nowhere near as invested in their characters as I am in practically everyone else. It’s very weird to me that I’m almost completely indifferent to the two main characters of the show & so thoroughly invested in the rest of the characters. I agree that Scott should’ve been the one to step away, & I also think that Allison should know the truth about her mother’s death instead of the Gerard/Victoria version of it.

I also hate to think that TW might get them back together in the near future. If they’re going to be so realistic about the Stiles/Sheriff S. interactions, not to mention “fate” that Scott & Allison will eventually be together forever, then howsabout we make it so that Allison & Scott don’t wind up reconnecting until their 20s or 30s? That would be normal. Hell, they did it w/Zack Morris & Kelli Kapowski; they can totally do it w/these two.

11) My guess for the Alpha pack is that they’re here to judge the fitness of the new Alpha to lead. A test that, in his present state, Derek will fail miserably. They’re also likely to be more than a little judgey of Scott being a lone wolf, especially since he could potentially become an Alpha in his own right. Either way, tho, I’ve had a perpetually quirked eyebrow ever since they dropped that lead balloon. I hope it’s done right, too, but it’s so rare that such things are done well that I can’t find much hope to put towards it.


13) No one ever means “back to basics” the way we think they do. Therefore, I’m going to ignore that bit of nonsense entirely. As for Lydia/Jackson in S3, I have to wonder exactly how much Peter’s ability to influence/control Lydia is going to wind up affecting that relationship. I also wonder if that’s not part of Peter’s evil plan all along.

14) I share in your irritation, but Imma wait it out another season & see what’s up. If we don’t get some clarity about the characters next year, I reserve the right to call bullshit.

15) The female EMT that Melissa talked her way past so that she could ride back on the ambulance was played by Justine Wachsberger, who was never on BSG but has been in several movies in the last few years. Here’s her filmography.

Tiptoe39tiptoe39 on August 15th, 2012 02:23 pm (UTC)
Re: Part Three of long, multi-part comment
9-10) Agree on all of this. I didn't remember the Terminator bit until someone pointed it out, but yup. definitely an intentional homage.

There's chatter about Jackson being related to the Hales, thus the blue eyes....

I love your thoughts about the relationships expanding and growing and taking more time where everyone's concerned, but we all know that ain't happening. TV shows aren't terribly good at that. Still, one can hope and pray.

Uwah my wrist hurts so i'mma stop there... but love you and love your comments <3
i'm a tiny bandaid?qthelights on August 15th, 2012 11:53 am (UTC)
8) And then that awkward moment when Gerard becomes a Leviathan.

Okay that made me lol.

(also the bit that angered me? when scott is all "you don't have to say you're sorry" to allison at the end.. i'm sorry, WHAT?! frankly she couldn't say it enough, she turned into a murdering psychopath ready to kill her friends and family!?!!)
Tiptoe39tiptoe39 on August 15th, 2012 02:24 pm (UTC)
Like I said above to Lady E, I worry tho about the double standard. Jackson has actually killed ppl so he has a bit more to apologize for than Allison, so I am more likely to stay quiet on that front. You can disagree tho. :/

Glad to make you lol :)
The Soul says: - qthelights on August 16th, 2012 04:55 am (UTC) (Expand)